I don't buy it.
@joe The simple fallacy in all that is that there’s no such thing as must listen content. People choose listen, and they choose how to listen. If they make bad and uninformed choices, there will be consequences.
/@hybotics @jacobrealo @j_r_snook @thedoctor
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@j_r_snook Basically, Joe is moving from a open platform in podcasting to a completely closed walled garden of a platform. That’s why Marco is fuming. The only way to listen is to have Spotify. A huge blow to open podcasting today.
/@jacobrealo
/@jacobrealo
@jacobrealo I guarantee this won’t be the last big move I’m sure of it. Apple is thinking about the same thing too. And don’t get me started on Luminary.
/@j_r_snook
/@j_r_snook
@joe Rogan is very popular so this is a big blow to the industry.
/@j_r_snook
/@j_r_snook
@jacobrealo Matt Stoller has a great piece back in February on Spotify and if/when they’ll kill podcasting. [mattstoller.substack.com] Should read it.
/@j_r_snook
/@j_r_snook
@joe Nobody will kill podcasting as long as I can put details of enclosures in my RSS feeds.
/@j_r_snook @jacobrealo
/@j_r_snook @jacobrealo
@joe Nobody is going to kill podcasting, including Spotify. It is just like nobody is big enough to control the internet. They may kill and gain control over *part* of podcasting, but they can not kill the rest.
// @jacobrealo @j_r_snook
// @jacobrealo @j_r_snook
@hybotics @jacobrealo @j_r_snook Fact is that Spotify is the one that really started this motion of killing open podcasting and they're on their way. They said it themselves that they want to dominate this and leave no trace. This scares me.
@hybotics @jacobrealo @j_r_snook And as I have said, others like Apple, Facebook, Google, Amazon, and Luminary are hell bent on joining into the killing spree.
@jacobrealo @33MHz @hybotics Firefox I bet.
@jacobrealo @hybotics yeah, sorry. Firefox.
@jacobrealo @33MHz @hybotics You're not missing much, haven't used Firefox since 52 ESR (the last true version before the major changes to extensions) and each version since has gone backwards that contributed to their ever declining market share.
@jacobrealo Are they trying to kill Firefox?
// @joe @33MHz
// @joe @33MHz
@joe I am not afraid. How is Spotify going to accomplish this if they can not control the independents? It simply is not going to happen just because Spotify says they are going to do it.
@jacobrealo @j_r_snook
@jacobrealo @j_r_snook
@jacobrealo @33MHz @hybotics Actually for me, I have to go farther than that. The demise of FirefoxOS and the departure of Elch (due to his own doing) was the true start of their decline.
@hybotics @jacobrealo @j_r_snook They & many others have the money to poach these indie podcasters by either acquisition (Gimlet, The Ringer) or contracts and the way it's going I guarantee yesterday is going to be the start of that trend as sad as it is.
@joe Just because Spotify has a lot of money, it does NOT mean they are guaranteed to succeed.
I will stand my position. :)
// @jacobrealo @j_r_snook
I will stand my position. :)
// @jacobrealo @j_r_snook
@jeremycherfas @joe @j_r_snook @jacobrealo Not sure who is a bigger pudding brain: Arment or Rogan. I don't use Spotify for podcasts, but I do lament the move in that direction. However, Spotify is quite widespread, so I doubt he will lose many subscribers
@joe @jacobrealo @33MHz @hybotics while I disagree with a lot of Moz's choices in the direction they've taken Firefox (OS, FF phone, etc), I think it is important to contribute bc they are all that stand between Google and a very unprivate internet.
@thedoctor @hybotics @jacobrealo @joe I also prefer their font rendering on Linux, and the padding/margin handling.
@thedoctor @jacobrealo @33MHz @hybotics Yep, Firefox is even behind Edge now hate to say. For me, it would be a sad day if/when they decide that is isn't worth it anymore and pivot to a advocacy organization and/or a incubator as reported last week. [techcrunch.com]
@thedoctor @jeremycherfas @j_r_snook @jacobrealo @hybotics Matt Stoller posted an update of what I linked yesterday for you to read [mattstoller.substack.com], and there's a good reason why this deal scares me.
@joe @j_r_snook @jacobrealo @thedoctor Paidcasts or Notcasts - https://longpo.st/p/lp/787899 - #longpost
@thedoctor @j_r_snook @jacobrealo @hybotics @joe I don't buy it. - https://longpo.st/p/lp/787900 - #longpost
@joe What is your preferred browser these days?
// @jacobrealo @33MHz @hybotics
// @jacobrealo @33MHz @hybotics
@joanna Chrome, or some derivative of it.
//@33MHz @jacobrealo @joe
//@33MHz @jacobrealo @joe
@jeremycherfas This is what I have been trying to say, but not as well as you did.
/ /@joe @jacobrealo @j_r_snook @thedoctor
/ /@joe @jacobrealo @j_r_snook @thedoctor
@hybotics Thanks Dale.
@33MHz So do I
// @joe @jacobrealo @thedoctor
// @joe @jacobrealo @thedoctor
@thedoctor I agree!!
// @33MHz @jacobrealo @joe
// @33MHz @jacobrealo @joe
@jacobrealo Blame 33MHz!!
//@33MHz @joe
//@33MHz @joe
@joanna I have been using Vivaldi for about three years now, no regrets.
/@hybotics @33MHz @jacobrealo
/@hybotics @33MHz @jacobrealo
@joe This just is not going to happen. As long as people have free will and can choose what they listen to when they listen, and how they listen, independent podcasting will continue to thrive and grow.
// @thedoctor @jeremycherfas @j_r_snook @jacobrealo
// @thedoctor @jeremycherfas @j_r_snook @jacobrealo
@joe Please remember that having a lot of money does NOT guarantee success, now, or in the past. This will continue to be true in the fuiture.
// @jacobrealo @j_r_snook
// @jacobrealo @j_r_snook
@hybotics I do hope and pray that you’re right since Spotify and others are trying to kill one of the only open platforms we have left. I would love to be wrong in this case.
/@jacobrealo @j_r_snook @jeremycherfas @thedoctor
/@jacobrealo @j_r_snook @jeremycherfas @thedoctor
@jeremycherfas I do hope you’re right since Spotify and others are trying to kill one of the only open places we have left. Would love to be wrong here.
/@hybotics @jacobrealo @j_r_snook @thedoctor
/@hybotics @jacobrealo @j_r_snook @thedoctor
@hybotics @jacobrealo @joe we should be blaming @gtwilson. That always works.
@33MHz I am not taking responsibility for Firefox's bloat and Microsoft's switch to Chromium. /@hybotics @jacobrealo @joe
@gtwilson It's better if you come clean now.
/@hybotics @jacobrealo @joe
/@hybotics @jacobrealo @joe
@33MHz Well, it all began when I offered some unsolicited advice for Netscape 4.79.../@hybotics @jacobrealo @joe
@hybotics I strongly agree, as you might expect. In fact, there's even talk about adding a media enclosure element to jsonfeed.
@joe @thedoctor @j_r_snook @jacobrealo
@joe @thedoctor @j_r_snook @jacobrealo
@GTWilson @joe @jacobrealo @hybotics @33MHz haha but the world demands a scapegoat!!
@thedoctor I thought my absence from most social media would shield me. I was wrong. /@joe @jacobrealo @hybotics @33MHz
@GTWilson apparently so. Did you see how quick @33MHz was to throw you under the bus? :p @joe @jacobrealo @hybotics
@hybotics That's fine. Since I am seldom ever around to take the lumps, it was a smart idea to pawn it off on me. :D /@33MHz @jacobrealo @joe
@GTWilson We will *always* find you... You can run, but you can not hide... ;)
It is good to see you back here!
// @thedoctor @joe @jacobrealo @33MHz
It is good to see you back here!
// @thedoctor @joe @jacobrealo @33MHz
@hybotics @thedoctor @jeremycherfas @j_r_snook @jacobrealo Bloomberg reporting today that Apple is ramping up its push into original podcasts by seeking an executive and to buy shows [bloomberg.com], which means they want in the killing open podcasting spree as well.
@joe These articles make so many assumptions to get to their conclusions. I will not take them seriously until I see action. I say again that I do not think this is possible.
// @thedoctor @jeremycherfas @j_r_snook @jacobrealo
// @thedoctor @jeremycherfas @j_r_snook @jacobrealo
@joe These articles are just written to create conflict. Conflict sells more ads. This is *really* what it is all about - more money from ads so they can raise the price of ads so they can get more...
@thedoctor @jeremycherfas @j_r_snook @jacobrealo
@thedoctor @jeremycherfas @j_r_snook @jacobrealo
@hybotics Yup. I mean, who wants to read an article that says Spotify bought Joe Rogan for 100 million. Good luck to them both. We wish them godspeed.
@joe @thedoctor @j_r_snook @jacobrealo
@joe @thedoctor @j_r_snook @jacobrealo
@jeremycherfas Well said, and I agree!!
@joe @thedoctor @j_r_snook @jacobrealo
@joe @thedoctor @j_r_snook @jacobrealo
@jeremycherfas I think Rogan has a hardcore fanbase that will follow him. This could work in his favor and be a positive uptick for Spotify. On the flip side Rogan leaving open platforms is bad.
/@j_r_snook @thedoctor @joe @hybotics
/@j_r_snook @thedoctor @joe @hybotics
@jacobrealo This is the bit I don’t understand. How, exactly, does Rogan going anywhere hurt open? Truly, I want to understand, and I don’t get it.
/@hybotics @joe @thedoctor @j_r_snook
/@hybotics @joe @thedoctor @j_r_snook
@jeremycherfas This may signal in the future to these platforms that the open and free protocol of RSS stands between them and revenue. Also brings the question traditional ad revenue for podcasters.
/@j_r_snook @thedoctor @joe @hybotics
/@j_r_snook @thedoctor @joe @hybotics
@jacobrealo Yep, if you read Matt Stoller and Cory Docortow’s thoughts on that, the goal of these corporations are simple: to make open podcasting irrelevant to leave for dead. Thinking the bigger picture.
/@hybotics @thedoctor @j_r_snook @jeremycherfas
/@hybotics @thedoctor @j_r_snook @jeremycherfas
@jacobrealo I don’t have to be a fan of Joe Rogan (which I’m not) to know this is bad news for open podcasting in general because it sets a dangerous precedent that other companies inevitably to join in.
/@hybotics @thedoctor @j_r_snook @jeremycherfas
/@hybotics @thedoctor @j_r_snook @jeremycherfas
@jacobrealo and either buy out or sign other indie podcasters to put behind their respective walls.
As Christina Warren points out on the bird site, it took 15+ years for this to happen. [twitter.com]
/@hybotics @thedoctor @j_r_snook @jeremycherfas
As Christina Warren points out on the bird site, it took 15+ years for this to happen. [twitter.com]
/@hybotics @thedoctor @j_r_snook @jeremycherfas
@joe The fact that the NYT, for example, puts pages behind a paywall does not force me to do so or prevent me from publishing openly. RSS will continue to be available.
/@j_r_snook @thedoctor @hybotics @jacobrealo
/@j_r_snook @thedoctor @hybotics @jacobrealo
@joe That’s their choice. It doesn’t kill the system, which remains available as long as people want to use it. RSS and other feeds remain available, no matter what big picture thinkers say.
/@j_r_snook @thedoctor @hybotics @jacobrealo
/@j_r_snook @thedoctor @hybotics @jacobrealo
@joe What precedent? There is none to be set here.
// @jacobrealo @thedoctor @j_r_snook @jeremycherfas
// @jacobrealo @thedoctor @j_r_snook @jeremycherfas
@hybotics @jeremycherfas @j_r_snook @thedoctor @jacobrealo @joe it can be frustrating if the top talent in a field is poached for exclusive deals.
@hybotics @jeremycherfas @j_r_snook @thedoctor @jacobrealo @joe back in the old days, the "best" was saved for prime time TV, and you didn't have to worry about having HBO, Disney+, Netflix, Amazon Prime, CBS, Hulu, etc.
It can bring legitimacy, though.
It can bring legitimacy, though.
@hybotics @jeremycherfas @j_r_snook @thedoctor @jacobrealo @joe it creates a farm system of sorts.
@33MHz Who gets frustrated by that?
/@joe @jacobrealo @thedoctor @j_r_snook @hybotics
/@joe @jacobrealo @thedoctor @j_r_snook @hybotics
@33MHz That’s true. I’m sure there are lots of big podcast/radio people on tenterhooks, waiting for the call.
/@joe @jacobrealo @thedoctor @j_r_snook @hybotics
/@joe @jacobrealo @thedoctor @j_r_snook @hybotics
@jeremycherfas Their fans, I'd think. When a franchise (Star Trek) goes to an obscure streaming service, I now don't get to watch that show.
@33MHz Well of course. But a lot of creators don't think they owe their fans anything. If treating fans like rubbish makes them perhaps less enthusiastic in their fandom, I count that ass a win.
@33MHz What if Joe Rogan had tried blackmail: if each of you pays me a dollar a year, I'll keep things open. How would fans then feel about free-loaders?
@jeremycherfas I don't mean to attribute fault with creators or something. I just find myself as a fan frustrated when a market decides it is more advantageous to be inaccessible to me. I'm not a podcast fan, but I'm in other arenas.